MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:
When President Trump declared Kerr County a major disaster, it unlocked federal assistance to help with a disaster response. In April, though, the Trump administration ended a FEMA grant program with money earmarked for extreme weather, saying the program had been politicized and was wasteful. We wanted to know what this program did, and more broadly, what kind of support the government does offer to help people in flood-prone areas. We're going to put those questions to Chad Berginnis. He is the executive director of the Association of State Floodplain Managers. That's a nonprofit organization based in Madison, Wisconsin. But he has more than 30 years in floodplain management work, and he's in our studio this morning. Good morning. Thank you so much for coming.
CHAD BERGINNIS: Good morning, Michel. Thank you for having me.
MARTIN: So what does this grant program that I just mentioned do, or what did it do?
BERGINNIS: So this grant program was considered a pre-disaster mitigation program called BRIC. And essentially, what it did is it funded activities that would reduce the likelihood of future disasters and those impacts.
MARTIN: And it - so what difference does it make that the president ended the grant program?
BERGINNIS: Well, one of the things that's somewhat ironic is that is one of the programs that actually funds flood warning systems. Also, from a flood standpoint, it funds things such as house elevations, relocations out of flood-prone areas and things that could directly help the situation at both Camp Mystic and, more broadly, in this flood disaster.
MARTIN: So, you know, FEMA pays out billions of dollars every year to help communities rebuild. The president has proposed elimitating FEMA. He argues that states should take more responsibility in times of disaster. Is he wrong?
BERGINNIS: He's not wrong. But at the same time, I think it's being proposed as a binary answer, and the answer, really, is we need both a strong FEMA and strong states. The state of Texas, for example, after Harvey, the state not only created and started to self-fund hazard mitigation actions, but they've also even taken steps to do flood-hazard mapping as well because it's well-known that FEMA's mapping program has been chronically underfunded. And so the state is stepping up. But as the events over the last weekend showed, even a capable state like Texas needs help from time to time with major catastrophes.
MARTIN: Like what? Like, what is FEMA - do - you know, a lot of Americans, if you've lived through a major disaster, then maybe this is very visible to you. But if you haven't, you - so what are some of the things that FEMA does, and what are the things that you're most worried about?
BERGINNIS: Yeah. Well, one of the things that FEMA does - and I was paying attention and really appreciated when the president issued a major disaster declaration after the request of Governor Abbott. One of the things that wasn't in the headlines, though, is that part of that declaration request - the request for hazard mitigation assistance - was not yet approved. And, again, that is also one of those programs that funds things like flood warning systems. And one of the things that I fail to understand is that the president has discretion on approving hazard mitigation after disasters. But since at least early spring, no major disaster declaration has had mitigation assistance. Yet in his first term, President Trump had routinely approved that kind of assistance, and I don't understand why this is happening.
MARTIN: What would that mitigation assistance be for? Like, what role would it have played in the disaster that we've just seen unfold?
BERGINNIS: Yeah. So one of the things that we learned over time is that people are most receptive to do the big lift of hazard mitigation after they've been affected. And so, again, for flooding, it could be buying out a home. It could be elevating it. It could be relocating. It could be floodproofing businesses. It could be installing warning systems. All of those are the types of projects that hazard mitigation funds.
MARTIN: Wow. So what are the things - given that you said people are most responsive to thinking about these things in the immediate aftermath of a disaster, what should we be thinking about now?
BERGINNIS: Well, I think at different levels. I would say at the federal level - and, in fact, today, there is a budget hearing in the Senate for NOAA, and NOAA has a huge role in flood response and recovery. NOAA provides the forecasts. NOAA has meteorologists that go and work with communities - do tabletop exercise - and yet the budget proposal for NOAA is a reduction of 27%. And so the Senate could take a stand today and say, no, we - that is important to us.
But I think on the state and local level, we also need to continue to build our capacity and even at the individual level. And my heart grieves for the parents that lost young ones. My own daughter this week is going to a day camp. And as for any parent, I would say, ask the camp, do they have an emergency action plan. Is that emergency action plan aware? Do camp counselors understand and can they exercise that? And so can our kids stay safe if a flash flood event actually happens? So there is responsibility at every level of government, as well as individually.
MARTIN: That's Chad Berginnis. He's the executive director of the Association of State Floodplain Managers. Mr. Berginnis, thanks so much for joining us.
BERGINNIS: OK, thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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